tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8132410343235772418.post6762491915631506942..comments2023-10-01T03:05:01.291-07:00Comments on GAY MYSTIC: Pope Francis Approved Adoption by Gay Couple/Hans Kung Overwhelmed with JoyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8132410343235772418.post-10727181628132174272013-03-18T15:56:34.373-07:002013-03-18T15:56:34.373-07:00Yes, there is so much going on at the moment, and ...Yes, there is so much going on at the moment, and I agree, much to early to tell, yet the signs are significant. I think it wise to remind ourselves that most of us at this end of the spectrum were not fooled in the least by the hoopla surrounding JPII's rock star like status and the media fanfare surrounding him. It left me cold. But what is happening now...this is indeed something very different, and its not simply a matter of being impressed by a friendly wave from a balcony. Rat-biter, I think the comments about conscience are a reference to the difficult position Bergoglio was in conscience wise during his tenure as Jesuit provincial, with general vows of obedience and a fourth (secret) vow of obedience to the Pope ( Secret in that not every Jesuit is invited to take it, but presumably all Provincials are). This must have put him in an extremely difficult position during the Videla years. Now as Pope it is only the man and his conscience standing alone before The Lord Jesus Christ. And I don't think Kung is saying we can't ask questions about his past, but the questions have been asked and too many credible witnesses have come forward exonerating him, including another Jesuit arrested and tortured during those years who insists Bergoglio most certainly did not cooperate with the Junta, but did his best behind the scenes -albeit not very courageously perhaps- to help the arrested Jesuits. In other words, much has already been written and said and written and said, let us focus more energy on the future. If new and credible, really credibly, evidence emerges, well then. But everything surfacing now seems like a rehash. Richard Demmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17116799651068476195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8132410343235772418.post-1196379921137168832013-03-18T14:24:02.324-07:002013-03-18T14:24:02.324-07:00""About his involvement during the '...""About his involvement during the 'dirty war' in Argentina:<br /><br />Let us not have a long conversation about his role in Argentina, but focus on the present problems facing the Church. Not concentrate on Francis's past, but on his future.""<br /><br />## Why does the author not want to discuss the Pope's past ? If his hands are clean, there is nothing to hide. An author who says the Pope is a great guy but is unwilling to look at his past succeeds only in suggesting that there is stuff in the Pope's past that won't stand up to inspection. If he's such a good egg, his past will stand up to scrutiny - if he's a scoundrel, or has been, the Church at large has every right to know: because the Church is supposed to be Christian - and being Christian is not compatible with collaborating with crooks & dictators. <br /><br />Certainly one should not be imprisoned by the past - but the past of a new Pope cannot be blithely ignored. The men at the top never ignore our past, but judge us by it - so they cannot expect a free pass. The "Dirty War" was a fantastically good way of trying to prove that Catholicism preferred tyranny, torture and murder - to anything remotely Christian - it is not going to go away. If Germans were able to face up to the crimes of Hitler, Catholics elsewhere should be able to face up to the crimes of their tyrants. A past that is not faced becomes a weight that drags one down.<br /><br />"As Leonardo Boff said, ain't no authority higher than Francis' conscience. After all, he's now the pope."<br /><br />Fr. Boff is wrong there - the highest authority cannot be the Pope's conscience, otherwise the CC would be a Papal dictatorship. As the CC is (meant to be) a Christian Church, it has to be ruled by the Will of Christ. The Pope is as much subject to Christ as the rest of us - far more so, in fact. To take Christ out of Catholicism, makes Catholicism demonic Rat-biternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8132410343235772418.post-23347442767451587512013-03-18T06:50:06.687-07:002013-03-18T06:50:06.687-07:00Thanks, Jayden and Colkoch.
It's far too earl...Thanks, Jayden and Colkoch.<br /><br />It's far too early to be sure, but the more I read, the more I like about Francis. <br /><br />It's been widely reported that he's "doctrinally conservative" - but I don't think that matters as much as the pastorally sympathetic approach. Most Catholics are not seriously concerned about doctrines - the one on contraception is widely ignored - but they are concerned about the pastoral treatment they encounter at parish level. <br /><br />The sensitive approach he has shown in the past on unmarried mothers, the divorced, and gay adoption are highly encouraging. <br /><br />Equally important I suspect, is his Ignatian background and ingrained habits of discernment and group disernment to decision - taking. I simply cannot see him autocraticlly imposing his own conservative views on these matters, without allowing room for open and honest discussion. Once that begins, who can tell where it may end?<br />Terence Weldonhttp://queeringthechurch.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8132410343235772418.post-38003148449862034452013-03-17T20:21:45.955-07:002013-03-17T20:21:45.955-07:00Thanks for the shout out Jayden. This is all pret...Thanks for the shout out Jayden. This is all pretty wild huh? I can see where he may have approved a gay adoption as a special case. That's the beauty of a pastoral mind. It's never a one size fits all kind of thinking, and it operates a different logic system. How does one balance the love for a child against sexual sin? There doesn't seem to be an issue with this when it comes to mindless heterosexual fooling around. Those kinds of sins don't factor into the parenting equation. So why should we use a different sin calculus with a monogamous gay couple?<br /><br />Yes indeedy, the self proclaimed uber Catholics are going to have anxiety attacks over this pope. As Leonardo Boff said, ain't no authority higher than Francis' conscience. After all, he's now the pope. <br /><br />I also thought it was a major statement about his independence that he is taking 10 days before making the trek to Castel Gondolfo. Major statement.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.com